Monday, 28 November 2011

Pre and post liberation experiences .. some first thoughts on general groups.

Monday, 28th November 2011


Well some weird shit going on on LU today but interesting .. I think I see what is happening ..

Basically ..

1) Those that see the no-self as concommitant with seeing through everything .. that all beliefs or anything beyond the five senses is ballshit .. anything you can put a name to or a label on is bs etc .. this is allied to a scientific rationalist view and they are happy with that as it makes them feel inviolable and able to laugh at anything they can’t prove (supposedly) scientifically .. actually a very narrow view but seen by them as incredibly smart and modern, cutting through centuries of crap from Churches religions etc .. supported by Evolution, Darwin, Richard Dawkins et al psychological theory and research into brain activity.

2) O.K. .. then there are the “inbetweeners” .. a bit fluffy maybe and often ladies .. who are aware of the love and loving feelings generated or uncovered by the peeling away of the ego self when identification with it ends, but who are not particularly hanging on to any set beliefs.

3) Those that have been around the spiritual path / self-development thing  for some time .. general tendency to want to retain such concepts / labels as Self/self or  Brahman / Atman .. God / soul etc or alternative concepts such as consciousness .. awareness .. and the void ..

3) Suddenly along comes a guy as liberator with his own group in Poland who apparently does the same thing  as LU / RT and is completely into demons angels .. telepathy .. astrology .. and a bunch of New Agey stuff .. .... pause .. surprise ..

I think this opens up two things .. 1) that to a deep believer in God or a First Cause, all of these phenomena including the false or ego self can be seen as creations or illusions created by God .. all is acceptable and possible .. and 2) that in conformity with many of the old spiritual paths ego self is still a veil to deeper truth wether one believes that it brings one to see the activity of God or to a bunch of mechanical operations all interacting and accountable for by brain activity and scientific theory ..

Seeing of no-self is deeply connected to non-dual consciousness because it shifts one of the biggest blocks of dualistic consciousness which is the identification with a fixed subject (self) which percieves everything else as object .. When the self itself is seen as an object the subject (awareness/consciousness) shifts to a deeper level .. the self is seen as a shifting temporary illusion and a connection is made with consciousness or present awareness, which is the permanent component of human experience ..

In reality there is no contradiction with all the other mystical magical new agey stuff but it is a huge surprise to those who arrived at the no-self in the spirit of either scientfic enquiry or after apparently tearing away all the bs beliefs a la Jed McKenna etc.

The only real danger in the no-self seeing is not recognising the incredible variety of experience that can lead up to it and the wide variety of depth and ways of interpreting it afterwards.

I still say in some (& very few) cases it is the same as a true enlightenement experience and after that there are levels and levels which can be interpreted in myriad ways.

Perhaps the most interesting thing is that it is a valid experience and useful for everyone bringing a great sense of freedom from a very personal burden ...

It turns into a bit of a pain in the arse when it is used to support previously cherished beliefs and or becomes a new form of belief in itself used as a catch-all resolution to all problems wether scientific, philosophical, spiritual/mystical, new age or psychological ..

1 comment:

  1. And your voice is heard, also! Really enjoying thinking long with you, Gregory. Thinking past/through certainties and beliefs and seeing the actual experience as it happens.
    One thing to say about this particular sangha, they are transparent. And frighteningly egalitarian, big smile. Fortunately, it's a big tent, the all.